The desire to change is not unique to the Christian. But some of us struggle to see true gospel transformation in our lives. What are those barriers that keep us from changing and what’s truly good about the gospel of Jesus Christ to affect change in our lives? Listen as guest Sarah Laguna and Kelly Pong-Der talk about how individual change happens and the role of the local church community in that process.

GUESTS

Sarah Laguna is a natural born rebel saved by grace, journeying to love and follow Jesus. Born to Korean immigrants and raised in Chicagoland, she considers San Francisco home for the last 7 years and loves any excuse to visit the ocean. Change is a constant in her current life stage as a pastor’s wife, mother of 3 and HR tech professional trying to disciple bi-cultural kids in an increasingly challenging climate. When she’s not dragging her family on hikes, or watching cooking videos, she’s searching for the best fried chicken sandwich, street tacos and Korean soups. 

Kelly Pong-Der is a 4th generation SF native with roots in Southern China, Japan, and Hawaii. She considers herself a soft-spoken extrovert who loves to listen and help others to reflect deeply to find meaning, purpose, and value at one’s core and gets to utilize her passions at work as a Marriage & Family Therapist. During the pandemic she has picked up new hobbies such as growing to like sourdough bread that her husband makes and eating lots of it, making homemade jams to go with said bread, and baking with her daughter. Her comfort food is a bowl of noodle soup.

INTERVIEW: SARAH LAGUNA

• [01:36-09:22] External circumstances helping to expose the need for inner change

• [10:34-14:00] Lessons and realizations through change

• [15:26-16:46] Hardship as an agent of change

• [18:14-21:28] Thoughts on what keeps us from changing

• [24:16-31:27] How believers in community can identify the need for change in each other

INTERVIEW: KELLY PONG-DER

• [32:54-34:56] How people realize they need to change

• [35:22-37:30] Where to start when realizing change needs to happen and how to know when to seek professional help

• [37:49-41:09] How Christians can help each other towards change by lovingly and gently addressing each other

• [42:16-44:05] Unique aspects of Christian’s ability to change

SCRIPTURE

• Acts 2:37

• Romans 8:1-4

APPLICATION

• Examining our desire to change with the truth of the gospel

• Understanding and giving proper recognition to the work of the Holy Spirit as unique in the life of the Christian

• Attempting change within Christian community

• Documenting triggers to unwanted behavior and examining core beliefs in light of the gospel

OTHER RESOURCES

“Mortification Through Joy” by Timothy Keller (sermon)
“How the Gospel Changes Us” by Tim Keller (sermon)
“Instruments in the Redeemer’s Hands” by Paul Tripp

Proverbs 20:24 says, “A man's steps are from the LORD; how then can man understand his way?” It can be puzzling to wrap our head around the idea that there is human agency in our choices, yet God supremely reigns over everything. In discerning, we determine to know what’s good, and even in a broken world, there can be delight in discerning His good, pleasing, and perfect will. Listen as guests Liz Lee and Michelle Tze talk with us about what discernment is, why we need it, and how we get it.

Guests

Liz Lee was born in Hong Kong and raised in San Francisco, California. God has led her to teach English in Osaka, Japan, be a stay-at-home mom of 2 children for 10 years and more recently to return to teaching elementary school in SFUSD. She also helps with women's and young mom's ministries at Sunset Church.

Michelle Tze was changed forever when a friend explained that Jesus’ death on the cross was not just a martyr’s death but actually what she needed to be made right with God. She and her husband have been living and serving for 10+ years in a group of people needing the same message, but communicated in their own language and worldview.  The Tze’s have three kids and if you join them at the dinner table you may be asked to give your opinion on a variety of topics including, "If Adam and Eve didn't eat the fruit, would we be here right now?"  "Who is your favorite: Anna or Elsa?" and "Can you eat pepperoni or do you live with Muslims too?" 

Introduction

Interview: Liz Lee

• [02:48] Reflecting back on decades of choices

• [08:50] Getting to know who God is to discern His will

• [10:45] The value of Christian mentorship

• [14:28] Scripture verses on sticky notes regarding discernment

• [20:01] Training her children in discernment 

Interview: Michelle TZe

• [23:26] Voices that we take into the decision process

• [28:01] Extreme Christian approaches to discerning God’s will

• [29:15] Allowing your worldview to come from Scripture

• [32:02] Reframing our decision in light of the biblical narrative

• [33:04] How unprocessed experiences hinder us 

• [38:44] A fatalistic attitude towards God’s will can reveal an underlying disappointment with God

Scripture

• Romans 12:1-2

• Proverbs 2:6

• James 1:5

• Isaiah 55:2

• Psalm 34:8

Application

• Evaluating our spiritual desire to want God’s will for our lives and knowing what voices we are listening to

• Walking with God day by day as key to knowing God’s will

• Seeking wise counsel in the community of other Christians in our decision making

• Allowing God to heal us and deal with our brokenness as we struggle to discern and obey His will

• Acknowledging that we all make decisions different according to our personality type, but regardless of approach, faith is needed

• Framing our decisions within the greater biblical narrative

Other Resources

“All That’s Good: Recovering the Lost Art of Discernment” by Hannah Anderson

Belonging is a core human need that expresses our deepest longings to be known and accepted. When we consider where we feel the most belonging, for many of us it’s what or where we call home. Home and belonging are promised to us in the gospel, yet in our present lives we struggle to hold in tension our heavenly citizenship and the call to proclaim to the world that home is also promised to them. Listen as guests Suzette Lee and Jen Pollock Michel take us through their contemplations on how we as Christians understand and live out our true belonging.

Guests

Suzette Lee is originally from Singapore. She accepted Jesus Christ as her personal Savior at age 30 at Sunset Church where her husband Abe and her were members for over 15 years. They moved to Chicago in 2018 and now attend the Church of the Beloved’s Wicker Park campus. She’s currently the U.S. director of Hands at Work in Africa (www.handsatwork.org), which seeks to mobilize local churches in Africa to care for the orphaned, widowed and dying in partnership with international churches. She enjoys urban and nature hikes, hosting, audiobooks, puzzles, board games and is a big Star Wars fan.

Jen Pollock Michel is the award-winning author of Surprised by Paradox: The Promise of “And” in an Either-or World, Teach Us to Want, and Keeping Place. She writes widely for print and digital publications and travels to speak at churches, conferences, and retreats. Jen holds a B.A. in French from Wheaton College and an M.A. in Literature from Northwestern University. She is married to Ryan, and they have five children and live in Toronto. You can find more at www.jenpollockmichel.com or follow Jen on Twitter @jenpmichel.

Introduction

interview: Suzette Lee

• [02:47] The many places of “home”

• [04:34] Making a decision to uproot (again)

• [08:11] Creating belonging in a new place

• [11:30] Encouraging others to create a sense of belonging

• [14:17] The example of Jesus Christ in “housekeeping”

• [18:39] What “home” means

interview: Jen pollock michel

• [21:36] Recognizing rootlessness and homesickness as a condition

• [26:24] Encouraging good “housekeeping” in the church

• [33:40] The promise of home embodied as both singles and married

Scripture

• Psalm 84:1-2

• 1 Corinthians 15:22-25

• Revelation 21:3-4

Application

• Asking yourself what belonging looks like in your present life

• Creating “home” for others by being intentional in where God has placed you

• Thinking relationally through hospitality whether single or married

OTHER RESOURCES

”Keeping Place: Reflections on the Meaning of Home” by Jen Pollock Michel

We think of loss as related to significant moments - losing a loved one, a job, a home. However, the experience of loss can happen in the ordinary, when something - either tangible (a set of car keys) to intangible (a sense of control) - is no longer ours. While some losses are more difficult than others, the experience of loss results in grief when something we value is gone. What is distinct about the Christian experience of loss? Listen as guests Megan Low and Grace Tang break down this down for us as we reconcile our experience of loss in light of a Savior who ultimately lost His life so that we may live.

Guests

Megan Low is a homeschooling mom of 4 and pastor’s wife originally from San Fernando Valley in Southern California, but now residing in San Francisco. She enjoys crafting when she has the time, drawing/doodling with her kids, and talking shoes with her husband, Theo. Megan shares with us on this episode the loss of her mom to cancer and her reflections as she processed this while in her Masters of Biblical Counseling program.

Grace Tang was born in Malaysia and came to the US at 16 years old. She worked as a certified public accountant before serving as a missionary in Central Asia for 10 years and in northwest China for 8 years. From these years of being on the missions field and having experienced many different types of losses, Grace shares with us her wisdom on how loss is experienced as a believer in Jesus Christ.

INTRODUCTION

Interview: Megan Low

• [03:58] To help me see that yes, even this really good thing that God gave me is fragile...is temporary...and to remember that my hope lies beyond this world. 

• [06:55] For the longest time I thought that if I showed too much emotion or if I allowed myself to cry that meant that I didn’t believe that God was sovereign or good or that I was somehow angry or upset or not happy with his plan by crying and that was me not complaining

• [07:30] I was able to see that emotion is not a bad thing...God gave human emotions, so it’s a matter of what we do with them...they can be sinful. but in many ways they are a good thing…

• [09:20] I think a lot of times we just try to stuff it and not talk about it or just...everyone else is moving on, so I just need to charge ahead and move on, too.

• [13:54]  Having had a loss of a person it just opens a door to talk to other people who are going through similar things or just a loss in general. I feel like  it makes them a little more open or even receptive and just willing to dialogue with me about it.

Interview: Grace Tang

• [18:56] I define loss as anything valuable that is lost. Sometimes you don’t know that thing is valuable to you until you have lost it, then you have a reaction about that loss, and then you realize that...oh, I think I’ve lost something important here. It’s just something tangible or intangible that is lost.

• [21:16] Losses affect the way you see yourself...whether you are a success or a failure, a victim or a victor, blessed or cursed...it affects your identity...it may affect what you believe about God - His goodness, love, justice...so loss can be very confusing. That’s what makes it so hard.

• [23:18] I encourage people to reflect on the value of what’s lost and compare it to the value of knowing Christ. Is belonging to Jesus enough for joy in your life? If not, then why?

• [28:12] After Adam and Eve sinned in Genesis 3, the rest of the Bible is about restoring what was lost.

• [28:34] Jesus Christ himself ministers to us when experience loss today through His presence...Psalm 23...the Lord is my good Shepherd. His presence means I”m not alone. I’m safe. 

• [29:36] Losses are normal occurrences in this fallen world, and from Jesus I learn not to hold on to anything too tightly in this world.

Scripture

• Philippians 3:7-11

• Matthew 5:3-12

• Genesis 42-50

Application

1. Recognize, engage, and lament our losses. 

2. Practice hopeful, thankful, learning postures in loss.

3. Look to Jesus in our loss

4. Get over our own awkwardness to engage others in their loss.

SHOW CO-PRODUCED AND EDITED BY CHARLENE CHOW

It seems contrary for the Christian to have wants or desires when we read verses like Luke 9:23 - that we are to deny ourselves and take up our cross daily to follow Jesus. Is there even a place in the Christian life for our wants? Does God care about what we want? Can we trust God with our wants? Listen as guests Amy Lee and Bronwyn Lea help us unpack these questions as we learn how God teaches us to want rightly.

Guests

Amy Lee is a San Francisco native, speech therapist, and new mom. Her Instagram account, @rootedingreenlove has over 19K followers. On Amy’s blog, she writes, “for as long as I can remember, I’ve been a dreamer, but not always for the right reasons.” You can follow Amy on Instagram @rootedingreenlove and on her blog. 

Bronwyn Lea is another Lea but spelled “LEA” from South Africa who now calls Northern California home. She is an author, speaker, and mom of 3. Find out more about her new book, “Beyond Awkward Side Hugs here.  Follow Bronwyn on Instagram @bronwn_lea and on her blog.

Introduction

• [00:41] I think as adults, and particularly as Christians, we’ve become really good at talking ourselves out of our wants. 

• [01:55] So, is there even a place in the Christian life for our wants? Does God care about what we want? Can we trust God with our wants? 

Interview: Amy Lee

• [02:10] I actually feel embarrassed to say...that I feel like I don’t have a problem wanting things.

• [05:45] As a Christian with wants, it is easy to feel guilty when the wants aren't directly related to God's kingdom in some ways….the building up of God’s kingdom.

Interview Bronwyn Lea

• [09:24] There are some very good God-given wants that fuel us and fuel humanity and give us vision and give us passion.

• [15:50] The work of discipleship I think has to do with us being really honest about everything that we bring to God open handed.

• [20:03] There’s a longer term want that’s curated by our discipline.

Scripture

• Genesis 3:6

• Romans 7:15-20

• Romans 7:24-25

• Romans 8:1-2

• 2 Corinthians 5:4-5

• Galatians 5:16-18

Application

1. Become aware of our wants and not just dismiss them.

2. Develop the habit of prayer, knowing that our habits transform us.

3. Commit to being in Christian community for mutual encouragement and the reminder that we all need Jesus.

4. Read God’s Word for stories of how other biblical characters dealt with want and desire.

Other Resources

“Teach Us to Want” by Jen Pollock-Michel

Show co-produced and edited by Charlene Chow

How does the Christian faith show up in your everyday experiences? If you’re searching for insight to take your faith beyond Sunday morning, listen to find out how this new podcast will encourage you. Look for new episodes monthly!